MyDD :: Open Thread

Open Thread

by Jonathan Singer, Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 06:49:03 PM EST

Consider this an open thread... What's on your mind?

Permalink :: 49 Comments :: Post a Comment

Senator Obama with US Troops in Kuwait (2.00 / 3)

Kinda' long but look for the 3-point swish at 2:55, I'd like to see McCain try that. Note the Blackberry on his belt, too, this is a new kind of 'presidential' don't you think?

by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:15:20 PM EST

Re: Senator Obama with US Troops in Kuwait (2.00 / 3)

badass-

by alyssa chaos on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:26:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is basketball to Obama (2.00 / 2)

what the saxophone was for Big Daddy in 1992?

by Blazers Edge on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is basketball to Obama (2.00 / 2)

I reckon. We better get used to it, just like on 'West Wing,' it's going to be half-court at the White House for staff and aides, I'm guessing.

by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is basketball to Obama (2.00 / 5)

And what shuffleboard and naps are for McCain.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 09:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is basketball to Obama (2.00 / 1)

Or what the football was to Kennedy in 1960?

by RickWn on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 11:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How did Bayh (none / 0)

do this morning against Lieberman? I hope he got his ass kicked a la Reed and McCaskill so he can be taken off the list. NY Times is reporting that HRC is allegedly being vetted, whatever that means.

by Blazers Edge on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:24:12 PM EST

Re: How did Bayh (2.00 / 1)

NY Times is reporting that HRC is allegedly being vetted, whatever that means.

"Has she killed a hobo since the primary ended?"
"No."
"OK, she's still vetted."

She's as well vetted as anyone, simply because the Obama camp would've done research on her during the primary. So any allegations of further vetting are kind of silly.

On another note, I missed it almost all of it, but I wouldn't root against Bayh in a Bayh v Lieberman debate. Mostly because the part I saw at the very end had Lieberman saying something to the effect that there are things more important than party affiliation and electing McCain was one of them.

by TCQuad on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not really. (none / 0)

Part of the vetting process is a request to turn over documents and answer very, very, very blunt and invasive questions. This requires cooperation on the part of the prospective VP candidate.

So, asking Bill to turn over a list with amounts of all donors to his Prez library or global charity would be part of that--something they obviously couldn't do in the primary.

by Geekesque on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 11:21:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How did Bayh (none / 0)

I wonder how often reports about the possibility of HRC as VP are floated just to gauge the public mood. Like, has the bitterness died enough to make an Obama/Clinton ticket feasible?

The further we get from the primaries, the better her chances become.

by Susan from 29 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:15:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the better her chances become. (2.00 / 1)

It doesn't matter since Obama can't pick any Democrat who voted with Bush/McCain to blunder into Iraq without undermining his judgment advantage and throwing away his most effective rsponse to the "inexperienced" canard.

by Beren on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

Beren,

Obama is about 2 points ahead of McCain. That's hardly comforting. In fact, the polls haven't changed all that much over the past month, despite everything that has happened. It's clear that Obama is going to need an extra boost heading into the convention. Hillary is the only one who could do that. Everyone else who I thought would make a great VP for Obama has ruled themselves out (Strickland, Warner, Webb, Reed). Who else can help Obama pull away? This election is way too important to let slip through our fingers yet again.

by rayj on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

Your 'concern' is noted.

by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

You know what Shaun, that's getting really ridiculous. It's like a slogan that people throw around in order to dodge the issues. It does nothing to help our candidate win and only further divides us.

I want to win this year. I frankly don't care who Obama picks as his VP. I happen to think Hillary helps him the most out of the other people on his shortlist. I know several people who are Hillary supporters who are still on the fence about Obama, but would vote for him in a heartbeat if Hillary was on the ticket.

But at the same time, Hillary may not be the right pick. I don't know. But I think a lot of people don't realize how close this election really is right now. Obama is unfortunately not up by 10 points. He really needs a game changer.

by rayj on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:34:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ya' think? (none / 0)

Well, if you really want a Democratic victory why don't you stop posting ridiculous diaries of the reductio ad Hitlerium variety attempting, somewhat unsuccessfully as it turns out, to undermine the nominee on the most flimsy of premises?

If you seek substantive discussion make a substantive argument and we'll see, OK?

by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

luckily for us our constitution laid out the system where states determine our president, not daily national tracking polls. Based on the state polls I would say Obama is doing quite well. Of course an amendment to the constitution could be pushed through before November and then on election day Gallup's current tracking poll would determine the winner.

by Xris on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 01:49:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (1.00 / 1)

Clinton is so nutty right wing and ran such a racist campaign that she would hurt the ticket big time. I bet the Greens are excited about the idea, though.

by libhomo on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 07:54:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

None of those things are true, and you'd be hard-pressed to find evidence that she is right-wing.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 08:02:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I can only repeat.... (2.00 / 1)

If Obama chooses any Democrat for VP who blundered into Iraq with Bush/McCain he will forfeight the "judgment" advantage that he has used effectively in reply to the "inexperience" attacks of both Clinton and McSame.

That has to a prime consideration in Obama's selection process.

by Beren on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 11:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can only repeat.... (none / 0)

I don't know that you're right on the mark there Beren, but if you've got some inside info aside from your own speculation, I'd love to hear about.

My own uninformed speculation is that every Veep candidate they are looking at will have both strong and weak points... even Feingold who could have passed your measure, would have presented some other thorny issues for them to consider.

Right now, I'm putting my faith in Obama and his campaign, not all our idle speculations. I'm sure we'll all be applauding the day after he announces his pick.

by RickWn on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 11:53:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can only repeat.... (2.00 / 2)

I only point out the inescapable fact that choosing any WarDem will hand the judgment vs. experience debate to McDesperate.

I'm going out on a snark limb here and predict that Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg will pull a cheney and choose herself as Obama's VP -- and it will be the best possible choice.

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 12:42:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can only repeat.... (2.00 / 1)

My chainsaw is out in the garage and I'm not in the mood to trim any limbs off the Snark tree anyways. Looks great the way it is.

You probably saw similar reporting like this today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul /21/barackobama.uselections2008

wherein, Obama has promised to increase troop levels in Afghanistan if elected. He's carefully defining himself as a leader who is not blindly pacifist, cowardly or, by nature, an appeaser.

With today's announcement, he has at once reinforced his own anti-Iraq war position at a time when even the Iraqis are echoing his timely withdrawal plans, and that also diminishes the Republican campaign to paint him as Mr. Cut-and-Run.

Should he choose Hillary or any other "War/Dem" he will still be right in line with American public opinion that the war in Iraq was ill-advised and should be carefully concluded with honor, but use-of-force is not always a bad decision in and of itself.

Much as I like Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, I don't think she's the Veep. She's his Chief of Staff. Charged to vett and advise selection of Veep? You don't get much closer to his ear than that.

by RickWn on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 01:46:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

but none have refuted it.

Obama my choose to forfeit his "judgment" card with a WarDem who blundered into Iraq with Bush and McSame, but I'm not betting on it.

"She's his Chief of Staff. Charged to vett and advise selection of Veep?"

I know. That was Cheney's job in 2000. And guess who he picked?

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 01:52:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

Yeah, but Bush was and still is an idiot.

Obama is not.

As for refuting your analysis... what am I? Chopped liver?

by RickWn on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 02:02:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

Neither you nor anyone else has refuted the inescapable fact that a WarDem on the ticket will render Obama's judgment argument obsolete.

Can you or anyone think of a way for him to get around such a hypocrisy?

Or how about this exchange:

McSame: "Barack Obama doesn't have the experience to be president!"

Obama's reply: "John McCain...err.... and my Vice President.... don't have the judgment to be president!"

And anyone who thinks the GOP won't exploit such an opportunity to the hilt is wearing blinders.

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 02:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

Well, let's just wait and see who has the most hypocrisy to defend over the next few months.

Meantime, I'm getting off this dead-end traffic circle right here at Goodnight Lane.

Yup. That's it. Goodnight.

by RickWn on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:07:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

who has the most hypocrisy to defend (none / 0)

Such a hypocrisy from Obama would be big enough for McSame to drive a swiftboat through.

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:41:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

You're wrong. Most people probably don't even KNOW that Obama opposed the war in 2002, and even more don't care. And people have a capacity to forgive and be understanding. Someone who was championing the war like McCain would be utterly indefensible. Someone who just realizes it was a mistake and didn't foresee the consequences (or how bad such war hawks could be at war) made a mistake, but not a crucial one.

Besides that, the truth is that people are voting for Obama, not his VP.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:14:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your head is in the sand. (none / 0)

and if by some remote chance most people don't know Obama's opposition to invading Iraq, McSame will make sure they are aware of the hypocrisy of him selecting a VP who AGREED WITH McSame rather than Obama back in 2002.

As for Hillary, she hasn't even admitted yet that voting with Bush/McCain in 2002 was a mistake. As far as she is still concerned, Obama is the one who was wrong on Iraq. To choose her would be to endorse McBush's judgment even while criticizing it -- a hypocrisy that would be exploited mercilessly.

There are plenty of good Democrats for Obama to choose who won't drag him down on one of the most important issues in the campaign.

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:39:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your head is in the sand. (2.00 / 1)

I DO want Hillary to apologize and that IS a problem for me.... That is one reason why I originally supported John Edwards. But I'd be lying if I said I was just as upset about the war than I was a year ago. Look, Obama voted to keep the war funding going, he by no means has his hands clean. Few who have the sort of experience and name recognition Obama needs to avoid confusion in voters minds do have innocence.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:55:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you're just dreaming up arguments. (2.00 / 1)

Picking anyone who voted with Bush/McSame will disadvantage Obama in an important way.

And all the pretzel logic in the world won't change that simple reality.

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:59:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your head is in the sand. (none / 0)

I take exception to the funding vs authorisation narrative you have suggested. It doesn't make sense to me, Hillary and Obama head-faked each other into a de-funding vote last year but otherwise it just makes no sense once US troops are committed. It didn't exactly work over Viet-Nam and it doesn't work now.

As for Beren's point about the decision to authorise military force I think it is relevant, especially given that we beat the pants off the Republicans on economic and domestic issues and 'national security' is all they've got. The shift over the last few days with Maliki's statements leaves them extremely vulnerable and I take his point about a 'war Democrat' as a running mate.

by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 04:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

In theory, you might be right about the whole WarDem thing. But in practice, how exactly does McCain hammer Obama over picking a VP that made the very same vote as McCain? "Well, Barack, you chose as a running mate a man/woman who supported the Iraq War. How do you reconcile that with your own position?" "Well, Senator, the difference between them and you is that they admitted it was a mistake [this may rule out Hillary unless she changes her tune], unlike you who wants to compound that mistake with another one by staying for 100 years."

Game. Set. Match.

by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 09:47:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many have disagreed with my analysis... (none / 0)

"But in practice, how exactly does McCain hammer Obama over picking a VP that made the very same vote as McCain?"

McBush would only have to point out that Obama's VP has the same record in the matter as Bush/McCain. He could attack Obama's experience without Obama being to question his judgment in return.

As for admitting it was a mistake to have voted with Bush/McCain, that doesn't nullify bad judgment in the first place, which is what Obama is charging McSame with.

And remember that Hillary and some others, such as Bayh, have yet to even admit that they made a mistake.

by Beren on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 12:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

Anybody helps as much as Clinton, and most don't bring the negatives, or drive away independents and moderate republicans like she does.

ABC

John McCain, maverick

by lojasmo on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 09:32:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

Always Be Closing?

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 10:00:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Brass balls (none / 0)

by JJE on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 10:46:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the better her chances become. (none / 0)

Anybody But Clinton.

John McCain, maverick

by lojasmo on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 10:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How did Bayh (2.00 / 2)

Pretty well, I have to say.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 09:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How did Bayh (2.00 / 1)

Love the part at 7:26 where Lieberman talks about McCain having the guts to, "fight special interests, including public opinion..."

Thanks, Joe, for the summation of what we can expect from a McCain presidency: A president who views the American populace as just another "special interest" group that should have no standing in the decision-making process.

Yup. Bayh did very well. Admirable, in fact.

by RickWn on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 12:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How did Bayh (2.00 / 2)

Watching it now on the comment above. He dodges questions a little more than I'd like, hitting preset talking points. Flubbed one (where he said we should have been focusing on Iraq instead of Afghanistan).

I really wish someone would point out that Obama was right about everything with regards to Iraq without going to it. All of McCain's blustering about "he shouldn't have made decisions before going"... Worthless bluster.

That Lieberman line though..... Phew. Glad to know I'm a special interest.

And that last parting statement about "this is the type of President McCain will be" made my stomach turn. Great, so he'll be stubbornly wrong for a couple years, then change position, then claim he was right all along.

by TCQuad on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 02:29:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republicans are 'panicked' (2.00 / 5)

And here's Chuck Todd delivering an unequivocal opinion on the Maliki comment's 'game-changing' impact on the foreign policy debate. Ouch.

The McCain position a 'bank shot for Joe Voter,' it doesn't get much better than this.

by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 07:33:26 PM EST

Re: The Republicans are 'panicked' (2.00 / 2)

Ouch.

We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin

by spacemanspiff on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where'd everybody go? (none / 0)

Just sayin'.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

by emsprater on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:48:34 PM EST

Huh? (2.00 / 3)

Say what? From CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer via USA Today:

Blitzer: "Now, you grew up in the segregated south. You know what racism is in our country. The fact that Barack Obama is now the Democratic presidential nominee, what does that say to you?"

Rice: "I think it's great. And I think it's great for our country. And I do think it says that we've come a long way. But it's interesting that it's from Colin Powell. He knocked down a few barriers of his own. He knocked down the barrier of chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. He knocked down the barrier to the first black secretary of state. Yes, I've knocked down a few too. It just shows that our country has been doing this for a while and it's great that this last barrier perhaps, has also come down."

Blitzer: "Have you decided who to vote for?"

Rice: "Wolf, yes."

Blitzer: "Do you want to tell us?'

Rice: "No."

Mark Memmott - Secretary Rice knows who she's voting for, but she's not telling USA Today 20 Jul 08

Hmm...

by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 08:57:26 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

what do you think ever happened to the dozens of anti-hillary "books" the right wing pundits have been writing and planning and publishing since 2000? do you think they're still going to try to publish them, or just wait to ee if she ever gets the nom. we all know the "books" (novels really) are out there, just like how about 2 weeks after someone old ad important dies instant biographies hit the shelves.

Mccain/Palin '08: Grandpa's losin' it.

by Doug Tuttle on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 09:09:52 PM EST

Dr. Horrible (none / 0)

Don't miss it. There is one hour left to catch Joss Whedon's brilliant internet supervillain musical, Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.

www.drhorrible.com

by ElitistJohn on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 10:54:58 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 7)

Looks like the attempt to walk back the Maliki quote is not going unchallenged.

The NY Times had someone translate the audio and it confirms that Maliki would like a pull out in about as much time as Obama has called for.

"Obama's remarks that -- if he takes office -- in 16 months he would withdraw the forces, we think that this period could increase or decrease a little, but that it could be suitable to end the presence of the forces in Iraq."

He continued: "Who wants to exit in a quicker way has a better assessment of the situation in Iraq."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/21/us/pol itics/21obama.html?hp

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 11:56:14 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Now that you guys got some 1-on-1 with other bloggers at netroots, any news on the supposed technology upgrades here at mydd?

Jerome swore it was around the corner just last month.

This site is in dire need, please give us an update.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:39:45 PM EST

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